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chrisnin64's review against another edition
4.0
Fantastic, just fantastic!
2022: not as strong as I recalled, Stonewielder actually edges it out. A fun return to old favorites tho
2022: not as strong as I recalled, Stonewielder actually edges it out. A fun return to old favorites tho
whatthefunct's review against another edition
5.0
Orb Sceptre Throne was everything I'd been waiting for the Novels of the Malazan Empire series to become. It helped that the cast was comprised almost entirely of returning characters that readers of the Book of the Fallen are already very familiar with, but aside from that, Esslemont seems to have hit his stride here with regards to being able to deliver a cohesive narrative where all of the various threads the reader experiences come together in a satisfying way. Everything about this was great in my mind, and I couldn't wait to continue the series when I finished it. So I didn't! And spoiler alert: I'm currently 60% of the way through Blood and Bone, and loving that as well.
nonsenseofsight's review against another edition
4.0
My first time through this one.
There's this feeling that you sometimes get in tabletop role-playing where a story thread or bit of lore is dangled in front of you in a way that makes you eager to keep playing... eager to learn more. It's rarely ever completely explained or fully fleshed out. But (if your dungeon master/gm is worth their salt) you trust that should you keep playing the game, you'll be able to pick up all the little threads and form a complete picture. It's a wonderful feeling. This feeling is, I'm coming to understand, the bones of what makes the Malazan novels addictive fantasy.
Like all addictions though, that feeling can be as frustrating as it is sublime. Orb Sceptre Throne is a pretty good example of both sides of that coin. There are SO many threads from the previous novels that get picked up here. The Seguleh, the Moranth, our loveable Dharujistani cast, a couple of scary necromancers, some of my favorite ascendants... the list is endless. Like HALF of the mysteries that I love in Malaz get a little clearer in this book. This is the first of Esslemont's novels to keep me reading later into the night than I planned (a pretty common occurrence towards the end of the Erikson books). I was having too much fun following the little threads of mystery to get the sleep I need.
HOWEVER, there's a fair amount of new threads introduced as well. Which I am, on paper, totally down for. But for me, these new threads are handled a little clumsily. This is a critique that I have with Erikson too. There's a kind of deliberate author intervention in the storytelling to preserve that dangling plot hookiness of new mystery. I don't think it's really fair to compare these two authors (though they pretty expertly share characters and locations so it's hard not to), but Esslemont's sleight of hand is a little clumsier than Erikson's. Like the writing is choppier. And choppy subtlety is a weird feeling.
For me, this book had a five star fantasy plot (even though the investment to really enjoy it is SO huge... just thousands and thousands of pages). But maybe a three star on the delivery of that plot? I loved it. But I'm not sure that I could say it belongs on a shelf with my favorites because I was frustrated almost as much as I was invested. Now, the net experience was completely worth it for me. I'm still excited about more Malaz. If this was my weekly tabletop game I would be ecstatic. But it's a book and I'm not playing along (more's the pity). So four stars this time. If you're totally obsessed with this universe (like I am), you'll likely have a great time with this one. So much cool stuff despite the fair amount of deliberate and obvious authorial plot obscuring mumbo-jumbo.
There's this feeling that you sometimes get in tabletop role-playing where a story thread or bit of lore is dangled in front of you in a way that makes you eager to keep playing... eager to learn more. It's rarely ever completely explained or fully fleshed out. But (if your dungeon master/gm is worth their salt) you trust that should you keep playing the game, you'll be able to pick up all the little threads and form a complete picture. It's a wonderful feeling. This feeling is, I'm coming to understand, the bones of what makes the Malazan novels addictive fantasy.
Like all addictions though, that feeling can be as frustrating as it is sublime. Orb Sceptre Throne is a pretty good example of both sides of that coin. There are SO many threads from the previous novels that get picked up here. The Seguleh, the Moranth, our loveable Dharujistani cast, a couple of scary necromancers, some of my favorite ascendants... the list is endless. Like HALF of the mysteries that I love in Malaz get a little clearer in this book. This is the first of Esslemont's novels to keep me reading later into the night than I planned (a pretty common occurrence towards the end of the Erikson books). I was having too much fun following the little threads of mystery to get the sleep I need.
HOWEVER, there's a fair amount of new threads introduced as well. Which I am, on paper, totally down for. But for me, these new threads are handled a little clumsily. This is a critique that I have with Erikson too. There's a kind of deliberate author intervention in the storytelling to preserve that dangling plot hookiness of new mystery. I don't think it's really fair to compare these two authors (though they pretty expertly share characters and locations so it's hard not to), but Esslemont's sleight of hand is a little clumsier than Erikson's. Like the writing is choppier. And choppy subtlety is a weird feeling.
For me, this book had a five star fantasy plot (even though the investment to really enjoy it is SO huge... just thousands and thousands of pages). But maybe a three star on the delivery of that plot? I loved it. But I'm not sure that I could say it belongs on a shelf with my favorites because I was frustrated almost as much as I was invested. Now, the net experience was completely worth it for me. I'm still excited about more Malaz. If this was my weekly tabletop game I would be ecstatic. But it's a book and I'm not playing along (more's the pity). So four stars this time. If you're totally obsessed with this universe (like I am), you'll likely have a great time with this one. So much cool stuff despite the fair amount of deliberate and obvious authorial plot obscuring mumbo-jumbo.
coysests's review against another edition
5.0
Pretty good entry from Esslemont, having read this after the Erikson series brings a different sort of experience, as I know what happens and how these thread do or do not end up tied up with TCG. Writing style this time seems much tighter, which I appreciate a lot, the characters are all interesting, although the plot with Antsy was somewhat pointless in the grand scheme of things.
I also found it very jarring to have the whole scene with the Malazans and their reactions to the Moranth munitions that they themselves would've used in practically the same fashion, I get the anti-war sentiment but the scene would've held up much better without the drama before the real drama at the end of it.
I also found it very jarring to have the whole scene with the Malazans and their reactions to the Moranth munitions that they themselves would've used in practically the same fashion, I get the anti-war sentiment but the scene would've held up much better without the drama before the real drama at the end of it.
anomandrewrake's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.0
FINALLY finished. I don’t know what it was, but I just could not focus on this book. I really think that I just had a rough month. I liked it. But I am glad I’m not reading it anymore. Darujhistan is an A+ setting, and it’s fantastic to see more of the Seguleh and the Moranth. Spelunking Moon’s Spawn was just a great time.
woolly_g's review against another edition
adventurous
funny
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
joshualeet697's review against another edition
5.0
Wow. Really enjoying these side books. This was about a 4.5. I found it entertaining the whole time pretty much. Couple sloggy bits but nothing much to complain about. Can we have a Raest sitcom please?
I'm enjoying these more than the last 4 main series books, personally. I found they got too serious. I understand they needed to, but they got sloggy and dark and serious and I missed the extent of humor. These Esslemont books have a bit of humor here and there which I liked. Kruppe could have been better. I found him delightful but a bit underwhelming at times. I think Erikson did his humor a bit better.
I can't say much without spoiling things.
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So many scattered thoughts below as I try to piece together what I just spent 3 weeks reading, lol
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SPOILERS
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so as we know, Dassem Ultor is Traveler, who has now become the first, who also killed Anomander Rake. I didn't see him leading the Seguleh... that was a shock.
Tayschrenn coming back as some Zen Tayschrenn was a shock. But interesting.
I enjoyed the Leoman/Kiska bits, albeit the cave and such was a bit dry at times, but it created a tension that lead to them getting close. I found the shores of creation fascinating. I love a good mystery. The vitr. What a cool name. And finding Tayschrenn and that little flying thing bringing him back to himself... yet a new Zen self? what was that all about.
Loved the whole Indiana Jones plot down south at the "Spawns" with Antsy as "Red", and Corien Lim and Malakai and Orchid being ... what... a daughter of mother dark? Did I get that right? and the Seguleh there looking for something yet unwilling to actually look for it themselves and it ending up being ... I think it was.... the mask of the first! Not the gold mask of the tyrant! And the THRONE! There were times this plot slogged. But in the end it all made sense and I quite enjoyed it.
Okay... One thing I didn't like was I'm not sure I would have had such sympathy for the Seguleh who were SLAUGHTERING everyone with a vengeance. I'd probably have bombed them without remorse and thought about the consequences after. I found that odd. They are killing so many of your allies and friends..and you cry that you're bombing them? I mean, sure, it's horrific... but wtf is the alternative... let the seguleh cut you all down???
Also... what's with making all the women fat seemingly suddenly? is ICE trying to be fat positive or something... and what... K'rul is now a woman? Yet Taschrenn seems to merge with K'rul or something... I'm confused on that one. We're always lead to believe, if I recall, that K'rul was a male... not that it matters... just odd. Suddenly K'rul is a woman and all the woman in the book are fat? weird lol
I had to go to the forums to discover that apparently it was probably shards of Dragnipur that were used to make the "bolts" that killed the legate, when Scorch and Leff get arguing and accidentally shoot the legate... so decide to just keep shooting him... So was Kruppe relying on them to accidentally do this? I'm also a bit confused why the Legate allowed the pair to remain...
I feel that, in the face of the Moranth munitions, the Seguleh are kind of rendered.. obsolete... sure ... swords are great... but they can't dodge dropped bombs... Seems a silly oversight by the legate and the Seguleh.. You guys didn't think some kind of air defence was in order?
Also, I found that in Return of the Crimson Guard, ICE made the Crimson Guard a bit underwhelming in the end... similarly while the seguleh are impressed at swordplay... I felt they were ... diminished... by the munitions drop. And their customs didn't fit with modern times. They were very out of sync. Of course, that seemed on purpose. But I just felt we get these great amazing Seguleh, and some pretty awesome scenes... yet I felt a diminishment to the awe I had. Still love them. And I will say the Crimson Guard became very much more diminished for me with how many died in RotCG. Still love them though. Sorry side rant.
Rallick Nom - also love when he's in the book. Such a great character. Roof top combat at its finest.
Torvald Nom - Enjoyed his bits. He was kinda tossed into politics and flung around, but it worked for me. It was amusing that both him and Tissera kinda saved the city in their own ways.
Spindle - loved the bit with Caladan Brood and the kitten telling spindle to stop using his warren...
Envy - was just kinda there and didn't do much
Scorch and Leff - I think they're a silly goofy side diversion of comic relief which I enjoy at times. Many seem to hate them... I like them. They're silly. I enjoy silly characters. But them shooting the Legate... with those special bolts... I dunno...THAT was a stretch.
Legate - The scene in the underground with Ebbin at the beginning was horrifically amazing. The legate's death was ... I was confused at times to say the least.
Baruk - Barukanal - I hadn't realized that he was being "compelled" and that's probably why Vorcan had herself chained up, and why Kruppe's old lady witch friend was doing drugs or something.
Ebbin - A neat character. Shame what happened to him, becoming the mouthpiece, and maybe a bit crazy in the end, being sent to the Azath house to replace Chaur as Raests "boarder"... Raest needs a sitcom!
Vorcan punishing Taya... I'm confused. I don't always follow everything in these books so well with my middle aged memory.
Taya - locked up... okay... for how long...? Is this permanent?
Barathol Mekhar I like his character, not sure what to say, besides enjoying his plot somewhat. Kruppe giving him a Villa... I'm curious what it looks like now...
CHAUR! He's back! Yay. Big Chaur and little Chaur.
Jan he should be married to Palla clearly, lol. They were meant for each other. Very much enjoyed the evolving conflict in Jan, as the second. Was sad to see him challenged by Gall and stabbed in the side. Was a bit confused as to why Gall was horrified... didn't he win? Was in not an honorable win? I need to look into that more maybe. The Seventh ends up as the first... aka traveler... aka Dassem Ultor!
Lo and Sall...
Yusek I liked her plot, being made to lead the Seguleh to some temple. Meeting Lo and Sall. Maybe falling for Sall and he falling for her, in the end? maybe
Fist K'ess and Captain Fal-ej and their feelings... just get together already you two, haha
Aman killing Tserig was shocking and sad.
Aman tossed in the well? I saw this in a forum... hadn't realized that's who was tossed in the well...
Bauchelain and Korbal Broach... I love these characters... but felt much more could have been done with them in the book.
As far as how the story ended, I was mostly happy with it... A bit confused, but my online readings cleared up some of my confusions. This book was more heart warming than most generally are.
I'm enjoying these more than the last 4 main series books, personally. I found they got too serious. I understand they needed to, but they got sloggy and dark and serious and I missed the extent of humor. These Esslemont books have a bit of humor here and there which I liked. Kruppe could have been better. I found him delightful but a bit underwhelming at times. I think Erikson did his humor a bit better.
I can't say much without spoiling things.
SPOILERS BELOW:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILERS BELOW
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILERS BELOW
.
.
So many scattered thoughts below as I try to piece together what I just spent 3 weeks reading, lol
.
.
.
SPOILERS
.
so as we know, Dassem Ultor is Traveler, who has now become the first, who also killed Anomander Rake. I didn't see him leading the Seguleh... that was a shock.
Tayschrenn coming back as some Zen Tayschrenn was a shock. But interesting.
I enjoyed the Leoman/Kiska bits, albeit the cave and such was a bit dry at times, but it created a tension that lead to them getting close. I found the shores of creation fascinating. I love a good mystery. The vitr. What a cool name. And finding Tayschrenn and that little flying thing bringing him back to himself... yet a new Zen self? what was that all about.
Loved the whole Indiana Jones plot down south at the "Spawns" with Antsy as "Red", and Corien Lim and Malakai and Orchid being ... what... a daughter of mother dark? Did I get that right? and the Seguleh there looking for something yet unwilling to actually look for it themselves and it ending up being ... I think it was.... the mask of the first! Not the gold mask of the tyrant! And the THRONE! There were times this plot slogged. But in the end it all made sense and I quite enjoyed it.
Okay... One thing I didn't like was I'm not sure I would have had such sympathy for the Seguleh who were SLAUGHTERING everyone with a vengeance. I'd probably have bombed them without remorse and thought about the consequences after. I found that odd. They are killing so many of your allies and friends..and you cry that you're bombing them? I mean, sure, it's horrific... but wtf is the alternative... let the seguleh cut you all down???
Also... what's with making all the women fat seemingly suddenly? is ICE trying to be fat positive or something... and what... K'rul is now a woman? Yet Taschrenn seems to merge with K'rul or something... I'm confused on that one. We're always lead to believe, if I recall, that K'rul was a male... not that it matters... just odd. Suddenly K'rul is a woman and all the woman in the book are fat? weird lol
I had to go to the forums to discover that apparently it was probably shards of Dragnipur that were used to make the "bolts" that killed the legate, when Scorch and Leff get arguing and accidentally shoot the legate... so decide to just keep shooting him... So was Kruppe relying on them to accidentally do this? I'm also a bit confused why the Legate allowed the pair to remain...
I feel that, in the face of the Moranth munitions, the Seguleh are kind of rendered.. obsolete... sure ... swords are great... but they can't dodge dropped bombs... Seems a silly oversight by the legate and the Seguleh.. You guys didn't think some kind of air defence was in order?
Also, I found that in Return of the Crimson Guard, ICE made the Crimson Guard a bit underwhelming in the end... similarly while the seguleh are impressed at swordplay... I felt they were ... diminished... by the munitions drop. And their customs didn't fit with modern times. They were very out of sync. Of course, that seemed on purpose. But I just felt we get these great amazing Seguleh, and some pretty awesome scenes... yet I felt a diminishment to the awe I had. Still love them. And I will say the Crimson Guard became very much more diminished for me with how many died in RotCG. Still love them though. Sorry side rant.
Rallick Nom - also love when he's in the book. Such a great character. Roof top combat at its finest.
Torvald Nom - Enjoyed his bits. He was kinda tossed into politics and flung around, but it worked for me. It was amusing that both him and Tissera kinda saved the city in their own ways.
Spindle - loved the bit with Caladan Brood and the kitten telling spindle to stop using his warren...
Envy - was just kinda there and didn't do much
Scorch and Leff - I think they're a silly goofy side diversion of comic relief which I enjoy at times. Many seem to hate them... I like them. They're silly. I enjoy silly characters. But them shooting the Legate... with those special bolts... I dunno...THAT was a stretch.
Legate - The scene in the underground with Ebbin at the beginning was horrifically amazing. The legate's death was ... I was confused at times to say the least.
Baruk - Barukanal - I hadn't realized that he was being "compelled" and that's probably why Vorcan had herself chained up, and why Kruppe's old lady witch friend was doing drugs or something.
Ebbin - A neat character. Shame what happened to him, becoming the mouthpiece, and maybe a bit crazy in the end, being sent to the Azath house to replace Chaur as Raests "boarder"... Raest needs a sitcom!
Vorcan punishing Taya... I'm confused. I don't always follow everything in these books so well with my middle aged memory.
Taya - locked up... okay... for how long...? Is this permanent?
Barathol Mekhar I like his character, not sure what to say, besides enjoying his plot somewhat. Kruppe giving him a Villa... I'm curious what it looks like now...
CHAUR! He's back! Yay. Big Chaur and little Chaur.
Jan he should be married to Palla clearly, lol. They were meant for each other. Very much enjoyed the evolving conflict in Jan, as the second. Was sad to see him challenged by Gall and stabbed in the side. Was a bit confused as to why Gall was horrified... didn't he win? Was in not an honorable win? I need to look into that more maybe. The Seventh ends up as the first... aka traveler... aka Dassem Ultor!
Lo and Sall...
Yusek I liked her plot, being made to lead the Seguleh to some temple. Meeting Lo and Sall. Maybe falling for Sall and he falling for her, in the end? maybe
Fist K'ess and Captain Fal-ej and their feelings... just get together already you two, haha
Aman killing Tserig was shocking and sad.
Aman tossed in the well? I saw this in a forum... hadn't realized that's who was tossed in the well...
Bauchelain and Korbal Broach... I love these characters... but felt much more could have been done with them in the book.
As far as how the story ended, I was mostly happy with it... A bit confused, but my online readings cleared up some of my confusions. This book was more heart warming than most generally are.
anchorz's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Overall, a good book. I would say there were several anti-climaxes which is not a bad thing, especially for those that are used to the series. Not all were very satisfying, however.